So now what?

[quaggy]

I rented Mad Men from Netflix and finally sat down to watch it tonight.  Now, I have a lot of good reasons to watch this show.  Many, many people whose opinion I respect like this show, my intern has been talking about nothing but since she came to work for me, it's award winning, and it even relates to what I'm doing at work right now.  (Have I mentioned that I love my job?)

I didn't make it past the first episode. I didn't even FINISH the first episode.  I turned on Dexter instead. 

I have a feeling that this is going to be Studio 60 all over again.  Great show, but I'm just not that into it.  Normally, it doesn't take long for a show to capture my attention.  In the best cases, it only takes a few minutes.  But I wasn't and no matter how much time I give it, I don't think I'm going to be. Since I don't have a problem with spoilers, I went on Wikipedia and it just confirmed my suspicions about the show.  All in all, I'd rather watch the show about the serial killer.  (Even if I do have to suffer through Lila.)

I will admit there was one bright moment that made me perk up.   I like Peggy and I liked her short interaction with Don. ("Do I have to?" "Good point.")  It's goood to know that my annoyance towards the end of West Wing was with Zoey and not Elisabeth Moss. I think I would enjoy her storyline.  But even watching Peggy's rise to copywriter just isn't enough for me.

So, I'm asking those of you who watched this show, should I give it a second chance or should I just throw in the towel?

Comments

[zinke.livejournal.com]

I had precisely the same experience with Mad Men. I can't explain just why I can;t get into it, I just know that I can't. I even tried watching the second episode after not being able to make it through the first, and it didn't make any difference.

But I, like you, know many many people who adore the show, so maybe it's worth trying again? If for no other reason to be sure?

Dexter is a show I'm planning to watch soon. It sounds really interesting.

[quaggy]

Oh thank god, it's not just me!! That makes me feel a bit better.

It's beautifully shot and very well written, but something is off for me. I think it's a chemistry thing. Like dating. Sometimes the show (or guy) is perfect on paper, but that's it and there's no good reason why you don't click. It's one of the reasons I never made the attempt with BSG. I know it's too dark for me. (Says the girl watching the show about the serial killer.)

As for Dexter, if you like Michael C. Hall, you will probably like this show. I have to say, I enjoyed Season 1 more than Season 2, but there's still enough to keeping me happily plugging along.

[zinke.livejournal.com]

Dark I can do, as long as there's a reason for the dark, if that makes sense. And the dark is only a part of the story which is helpful, I think.

Michael C. Hall is one of the many reasons I suspect I would like Dexter. He's been a favorite ever since Kids in the Hall.

[quaggy]

I can do dark and twisted... but I need there to be order and morality. One of the traits that many of my favorite books and movies share is that the main character has a moral code that they stick to and does their best to play by the rules. I don't really do well with "a world gone mad" scenario and BSG strikes me as a world where the rule book got tossed (for quite understandable reasons.)

You'd think that a show about a serial killer would be about amorality or about how there are no rules, but Dexter actually has a moral code, even it's not one generally accepted by society, and he tries his best to keep to it. It's a show about finding order in chaos and that appeals to me.

[marymary.livejournal.com]

The way I see BSG is that, yes, things are so dire that people are taken outside a place where they understand how to apply the rules of morality. But they still have them. And the show, over the course of four seasons, takes the viewer to a place where the moral compass and the right/wrong slowly become clear. There are people who "get it" sooner than others, and they're not always the people that you would would have bet on. The right/wrong thing is a bit like a mosaic of characters and behaviors; as you come to the end, you can step back further and further and finally see the pattern and the answer.

Ok, I'm starting to bore myself. And that's not an argument that you should start watching the show, just my take on how it handles morality. :-)

Though I think that if you knew Lee Adama? You would looove Lee Adama. For the same reasons I do. His soul is very shiny. :-)

[quaggy]

Yes, I do get that and I never doubted that morality still existed on an individual basis. But watching them try and fail to figure out the rules and to apply them (for four seasons!) would break my heart. One of the things that loved about Spirited Away was that Chihiro followed the rules to the best of her abilities... and won that way. Actually, that seems to be a common thread through most of Hayao Miyazaki's films.

You would looove Lee Adama. For the same reasons I do. His soul is very shiny. :-)

I thought it was because his body is very pretty! ;-D So, Lee Adama would be my Peggy Olsen? Do you think there's a West Wing connection there somewhere, seeing as to who plays his dad? :-)

[mary-the-fan.livejournal.com]

Ha. In BSG, Lee is more Mendoza than EJO's character.

IMO, Lee has the strongest moral compass on the show. To the point that, though he's a military officer and a staunch supporter of democracy and the rule of law, he will even transcend those lines in order to do what he thinks is right. More impressive than that (because he's a very sensitive character) he will risk the most important relationships in his life to do the right thing.

He's also, as I suggested, a very sweet boy. He's a badass pilot and will fuck your shit up if you're going to hurt someone, but he's always accessible, emotionally. Actually, it's more than that; he consistently reaches out and thinks of others before himself. One of my favorite scenes is when he's been shot and a love interest of his is sitting at his bedside. As he wakes up, he looks at her face. His first words are "What's wrong?" 1) He almost died, but his first thought is not for himself. 2) He doesn't assume that "what's wrong" is that she's sad about his injury! He thinks it might be something else and he wants to help. That boy...

Watching his heart break (which it does about once a season) is always moving, never sentimental. I think that's partly because he plays a really strong character who is strong because he feels so much, not despite it.

He's not flawless or anything. He can be sort of bitchy, especially with his dad or his...whatever Kara is. In fact, when there's little at stake, he can be sort of petty and stupid. When it really counts, he shines. He sometimes hates the wrong people, but not often. I just love him, can you tell? :-D

You might be surprise to hear this, but I don't think Lee is your Peggy. Peggy is not my Lee. Peggy is someone I sympathize with but I don't like her that much. Probably other MM fans like her better than I do. But, though she makes some questionable choices sometimes, she is evolving. I am rooting for her. :-)

You're right that there are no black or white characters on MM. For me, that's part of the appeal, but might not like that aspect of it.

[quaggy]

You make me like him from just your description! :-D

Peggy is someone I sympathize with but I don't like her that much

I didn't mean that Peggy was the one pure soul of Mad Men. I think her storyline (of which I am sufficiently spoiled) is enough to prove that. I meant that Lee would be the one (only?) character on the show that I responded to.

You're right that there are no black or white characters on MM.

I don't want my characters to be black and white, in fact I prefer if they aren't. I just want black and white to exist in the world they inhabit... and the characters that I will respond to the most will be the ones that consistently to do the right thing. It doesn't mean they will always succeed.

One of my three most favorite characters on Avatar was Zuko... the guy who started out as the bad guy. He may of ditched the anger and the ponytail after season 1, but he was still the most screwed-up, single-minded, head-up-his-ass character and some of his choices, even by the last season, made me hang my head in despair. His redemption was a slow process. But you saw even early on from his villain days that he tried to do the right thing. He just didn't always recognize the right thing if it came up and poked him... or put her hand on his scare and offered to heal it for him. *still bitter about season 2 finale*

On the other hand, Aang is does not have a spot of gray. He is always considered morally right on the show. (Even when I personally disagree.) I also find him to be very annoying and preachy. People are and should be painted in shades of gray. If they weren't I wouldn't find the whole "try to do the right thing" so frustrating.

[mary-the-fan.livejournal.com]

Sorry, I think "black and white" was a poor choice of words. :-)

On BSG, everyone has shades of gray. And if you ever did like the show, I'm sure Lee wouldn't be the only one you responded to. I think you would like Sharon Valerii ("Boomer") and Sharon Valerii Agathon ("Athena") because they're very much the "good" character trying to figure out how to follow their hearts through impossible situations. Both of them are guided more instinctively than thoughtfully (which is more Lee). And through Grace Park's performance in two very difficult roles, you really feel for them.

You would also love Helo, just because everyone loves Helo. Here's Jacob, the TWoP recapper, in one of his BSG episode recaps:

"Quit kicking yourself," says Helo. I love Helo. He's like eight feet tall and gorgeous, and could probably lift a house and throw it several feet, but all he does instead is tell you how special and lovely you are, and how much he loves you. Even if you're the ex-boyfriend! Even if you attack him with a monkey wrench! What are monkey wrenches to him? Nothing but obstacles to him telling you how wonderful you are; a break in the conversation."

Hee. I remember your angst at the end of whichever season it was, when Zuko ?? betrayed his uncle ??. Poor you! I trust things got better.

Where do you stand on the casting controversy?

[quaggy]

You would also love Helo, just because everyone loves Helo.

Oh he sounds lovely! :-D As do the Sharons. (Are one of them the one who didn't know she was a Cyclon?)

Hee. I remember your angst at the end of whichever season it was, when Zuko ?? betrayed his uncle ??. Poor you! I trust things got better.

Yes. *sigh* That was HORRIBLE. And what I was referring to. Right before that Katara actually offered him an olive branch. And then he goes and does something so wrongheaded! It just made it all worse. (I still feel it was out of character, but at least it got fixed.) The show did get much better after that. Too bad everybody wound up in lame romantic pairings at the end (except Sokka and Suki)

Where do you stand on the casting controversy?

I'm pretty disgusted and ticked off. I can't believe they went with an all-white cast. While I was too jaded to expect an all-Asian cast (though it's what I would have preferred), I was at least expecting the cast to be multi-ethnic. I was actually figuring Aang to be white, Zuko, his uncle and the rest of the Fire Nation to be Asian and Katara and Sokka to be Hispanic or Pan-Asian. I mean Katara and Sokka are BROWN, for crying out loud!

That said, I'm not joining the letter writing campaign or anything like that, though I applaud their efforts. I've just completely written the trilogy off, like I did the Dark Is Rising movie adaptation when I found our that quiet, dark-haired, British Will was cast as a blond, obnoxious American. *smacks forehead*

[zinke.livejournal.com]

BSG bills itself as being about morality at the end of the world, which I think in many ways is accurate. But beyond that, it's also about how the individual characters struggle with the reality that conventional morality no longer quite fits.

It's the ambiguity that I respond to most, I think - it the reason I'm also in love with Damages - I like that the show demands something of it's viewers and makes you think. It's also largely character-driven - which is how I prefer my dramatic shows to be - and does a great job of integrating the individual character's stories with larger events.

And the fact Lee Adama is easy on the eyes certainly doesn't hurt. *g*

[quaggy]

It's the ambiguity that I respond to most, I think

See ambiguity and I aren't really friends. I can only deal with it in small doses... both in morality and in plot. I need the world I watch or read about to have a black and a white just like I prefer an epilogue to an open, ambiguous ending. (With the exception of the Harry Potter series. That epilogue was a little too neat and tidy... even for me.)

I suppose it's because I get enough of ambiguity in real life. I don't need my fiction to explore the same thing. Or it could it's just be my nature. And lets face it, from time as a librarian to working at visitor service at major DC museum to what I do now, my entire career has been about bringing order from chaos. I have to be attracted to these jobs for a reason!

[watson1.livejournal.com]

I'm with you & Zinke.

I watched the first couple of episodes, and tuned out. It just didn't hold my interest. And I know a lot of people who love it, too.

I'm not sure why, but I'm hestitant to even go back and try again.

[quaggy]

You and Zinke are making me feel better!

I just keep looking at the DVD and thinking that if return it, I'll be getting Ratatouille sent in its place. And that's tempting.

[watson1.livejournal.com]

Ratatouille sounds like a better bet to me. :)

[quaggy]

It would be a HELL of a lot more fun, that's for sure.

[gatsbyfan.livejournal.com]

Television shows are like dating. Either it works or it really doesn't.

Mad Men is appointment television for me. I eagerly anticipate the next season... even though it doesn't come until summer. The writing is amazing. The storylines are full of layers.

But no amount of goading or prodding will get me to watch Dexter. None.

And I question my best friend's judgment when she says she really likes "2 1/2 Men". Ew.

[quaggy]

But no amount of goading or prodding will get me to watch Dexter. None.

To each their own, I guess. I wouldn't classify Dexter as one of my favorite shows, but I am very, very glad I gave it a shot. It's witty, engaging and honestly makes you think.

I am curious enough about Peggy to find out how her storyline is progressing, but only second hand.

[gatsbyfan.livejournal.com]

It's witty, engaging and honestly makes you think.
The same can be said for Mad Men. ;-)

Honestly, just reading or hearing Peggy's storyline wouldn't do it justice. Elizabeth Moss acted her ass off. She deserved an award for this past season.

[quaggy]

Sigh. I know. But unless someone's going to compile just her storyline together, I don't think I have the patience to sit through the entire series.

[seri-scribble.livejournal.com]

Quaggy required some prodding to get her to give Dexter a try.

Everyone needs to watch the first episode of dexter. especially the people who vow never to watch it because honestly you'd be suprised. :D

[quaggy]

I was worried about the blood and violence. I mean, I don't watch horror movies for a reason. But you were right and it's bearable. It's not a perfect show. There are things about it that I could live with out (Lila, for one), but the payoff is great. Man, that scene with Doakes and Dexter at the start of "There's Something About Harry"? There are simply no words.

[eloriekam.livejournal.com]

I apologize for going OT, but... is that Simon Tam?

[quaggy]

It is! Firefly is one of my new favorite old shows! :-D And THAT'S one that captured me instantly!

[eloriekam.livejournal.com]

I *still* don't have any Firefly icons. *hangs head*

Did you just start watching Firefly recently? I'm trying to figure out how we talked for five hours and didn't mention it!

[quaggy]

I hadn't started watching it when we met up. I was still consumed with Avatar. Firefly replaced the void that it left when the show ended.

[kirjava.livejournal.com]

But no amount of goading or prodding will get me to watch Dexter. None.

hehe. word.

I'm not sure I'm rooting for Don. I guess I'm rooting for all of them and none of them, but really, it's the era, the context, the age that is invoked that makes it what it is. I don't think any of those characters stand alone. But also, how do you not want to watch Jon Hamm read an instruction manual for an hour, let alone fill out a suit like that? If there were no plot, the colors of the clothes and the set would be enough for me. No one does color like that anymore. Mad Men has color the way Snuffy Walden did music for WW. Seriously, its a good. show. I fail to understand. (I don't remember how long it took before I was taken in. I don't think I saw the first several eps when they aired. Then again, it took me a good 5 years to discover the brilliance of WW so, you know, you can always catch a marathon later.)

[quaggy]

If there were no plot, the colors of the clothes and the set would be enough for me.

It's a nice bonus, but it can't carry a show for me. I really respected how the show was able to suck you into the period with just a few words and a look or two without hammering over your head "THIS IS A PERIOD PIECE". It did feel like it was almost a product of that time period (if modern storytelling trends existed back then) rather than a recreation. But again, that's not going to get me anywhere if the plot and characters can't engage my attention long enough to finish and episode. I doubt I'll EVER have the patience to sit through a marathon.

I don't question that this is a quality show. It's just not MY quality show.

[flippet.livejournal.com]

If there were no plot, the colors of the clothes and the set would be enough for me. No one does color like that anymore. Mad Men has color the way Snuffy Walden did music for WW.

THIS, THIS, THIS!!!!!!!


Completely aside from the fact that I love the storylines and the acting knocks my socks off, it's the SET and the COSTUME DESIGN and yeah, the colors and cinematography that just send me over the edge. It's like *living* there for that hour a week. It practically makes me gasp, it's so detailed and amazing.

This was my parents' generation, and it's like looking at their world from a completely different perspective than I had as a kid. I used to look through their old pictures and yearbooks, and everything was black-and-white, you know? Watching MM is like flipping the switch to the floodlights--suddenly all the memories are in Technicolor.

It's a sensual thing.

[quaggy]

Yeah, I get that and I do agree... but it's just not enough for me to commit 26 hours of my life. Maybe it's because of where I work, but it's not that much of a novelty for me.

[marymary.livejournal.com]

Hey, quag! Yeah, is a little like chemistry. I have chemistry with a lot of shows, so I guess I'm kind of a TV slut. :-)

Now it takes me at least three or four episodes to get interested and attached. Even my very favorite shows in the world, I could have walked away from them after the first episode. So I can't go by the pilot of anything. (Though I do remember watching the pilot of Life and saying "Yeah. I'm in." But I was already attached to Damian Lewis, so... But I digress.)

If you can really tell after less than an episode, then I'd say it's probably not for you. It is very...muted, and you like bright colors. :-D So I guess I can see that.

(You know that Christina Hendricks is your Firefly/Mad Men intersection, right? :-)

[quaggy]

Now it takes me at least three or four episodes to get interested and attached.

Not me. I fall hard and I fall fast. The passion may fade after a while or it may progress to a long term relationship, but I think I proved with Studio 60 that no matter how much time I invest, it won't happen over time. (I think my love life would be a hell of a lot more interesting if I could be like that when it came to guys.) I think the only exception would be if I caught an atypical episode. Like if my first experience with West Wing was Ninety Miles Away or The Long Goodbye. But from what I'm gathering Mad Men has been pretty consistent.

(You know that Christina Hendricks is your Firefly/Mad Men intersection, right? :-)

Heh! Sweet!

[flippet.livejournal.com]

Aside from the reply above, a big part of why I like this show is that A) it's a character study, and B) it's a mystery.

Who is Don Draper? He's not at all who he says he is--to anyone. Who does he see when he looks in the mirror, you know? Each new episode drops clues, but it's up to the viewer to piece the puzzle together...to decide whether the pieces given even fit this puzzle, or another one entirely. And so many of the clues are literary--for a lit major like me, that's like getting a fix of my favorite drug.

And then you've got the supporting cast--and the way the writers delve into their psyches, too...with just the smallest, deftest touch, sometimes. Light as a feather. It's art---all of it. Writing, acting, set and costume design, the interplay of it all perfectly meshed. I just can't get enough.

To each their own, though. Because you won't find me watching Dexter either, though I liked SFU, and Michael C. Hall.

[quaggy]

You make a good case for the show. I wish I could make as strong of an argument for why I don't, but it's for less intellectual reasons and more intangibles. It's probably the same reason I only lasted 10 minutes when my family decided to watch Burn After Reading. I needed something that both the show and the movie just weren't offering.